Financial Fluency Episode #42: Why Women are Behind Men in Retirement Savings

Today, I wanted to take a look at retirement savings for women. Recently, I’ve seen some articles that talk about how overall in the U.S, we aren’t saving enough for retirement and then on top of that, women are being most negatively affected. Women seem to be saving less than men and I wanted to look at some of the reasons for that.

You can listen in or read below and Tweet it out hereTweet: Can women afford to live longer than men? Via @jturrell

Here’s What I Found

I found a few studies, some longitudinal studies that followed women and men through different parts of their lives and careers. The first one I want to talk about is a study that followed Harvard MBA graduates and it was showing how the burden of student loans weighs heavier on women and why that is.

They had two students; a male and a female, graduates from Harvard MBA, they go to their first professional entry-level job and the woman doesn’t quite manage to negotiate for as high a salary as the man. There are a lot of reasons for that, women are inculturated to not really hone the same negotiation skills that men are, we’re often told to be nice, we’re told to be polite, we’re told to kiss the smelly uncle that we don’t really like when we say hello to him.

There are all these ways that women are taught to be people pleasers a bit more than men usually are. I don’t mean to make a sweeping generalisation about gender here but I think most people agree that everyone likes little girls to be “nice”.

Little girls are supposed to be cute and sweet and not aggressive and not too forward. They get called bossy and bullies, hopefully no one’s calling little girls bitchy but as you get older into the teenage years, that comes out too. Both in school and in life, people tend to encourage boys to go after what they want and be focused and driven and assertive and aggressive and women are taught to not do that quite as much.

So these could be some of the reason that the women, even these elite women from Harvard MBA, I mean if any woman in the country is going to really go in and negotiate well for her first starting salary of her first professional job, it’s probably going to be a woman who’s a Harvard MBA graduate.

So even these women aren’t managing to negotiate quite as high of a salary as the men. It’s not as drastic as in some other groups because these women are taught Business and they are going in there to get the best salary as they possibly can but still a bit lower.

Here’s Where the Real Difference Started

Where it really started to show a difference between the man’s and the woman’s ability to pay off their student loans was at the five-year point.

Five years out in their careers, things started to change a lot. Now men’s salaries were going up much higher than women’s, women were taking time off for having children, they were getting flexible work schedules, they were maybe taking different jobs that had less demanding hours and their student loan payments did not escalate the way men’s did.

A lot of the Harvard MBA men were much more aggressively paying off their loans so the length of time that the women were paying off these loans and the level they were paying them off, was much longer at a much lower payment level.

I feel like this five-year point from Graduate school, these are prime years in a man’s career. This is when he’s going for those promotions, going after new projects, doing lots of things where maybe he has to travel, he probably doesn’t have kids yet or his wife is home having the kids and he’s able to really focus on his career.

Where women at the same time, a lot of them are taking time out, they’re leaning back, you know Sheryl Sandberg wants us all to lean in in these years but you know what, not everyone can lean in and I get frustrated at this idea that it’s all on the woman:

  • To be negotiating correctly
  • To know what her salary should be
  • To own her worth
  • To be aggressive

Some of us, like myself, I had really difficult pregnancies. I had Hyperemesis, I was on bedrest for most of them, I was on medications and IVs. And some women they can have a perfectly fine pregnancy but have a very difficult and physically catastrophic birth experience.

I think sometimes, here in America, because we’ve come so far in terms of medical intervention for birth, we don’t think about how physically traumatic and dangerous it actually is. I looked up the statistic the other day from the World Health Organization and it said that everyday in the world, 861 women die from pregnancy and birth related causes.

A lot of that is definitely skewed toward the developing world where there are not a lot of prenatal services and where the medical services for birth at all are much more primitive than here in the United States. We have a much lower mortality rate for both mother and infants than in a lot of other countries but we’re not the best by any means.

Women still die every day from giving birth so the idea that it should just be this experience that everyone has and that you hop up out of bed the next day and take a week or two off and then sashay back into work with your baby at a nanny or some kind of child care facility, that’s not the reality for a lot of women.

Not All of Us Have the Same Experience

For myself again, I had really difficult pregnancy experiences and now I have two special needs children who have very different levels of need. If everything goes right and if you have a beautiful birth experience, a beautiful pregnancy, your children are fine and healthy, yeah it’s true, you may be able to hop right back into your career and it may not take that much time out for you. However, that’s not the reality for a lot of people and I think that us talking about leaning into our careers assuming that most people have these really easy, super smooth birth experiences, that’s a little bit unrealistic.

So if you do have to take time out from your career, if you do have to actually leave the job and not just use up all of your sick leave and all of your vacation days in order to have your baby and then maybe six weeks of unpaid leave on top of it. That’s a lot of time and salary lost just there, plus the contributions to your 401K, if you even have one, plus the possibility of promotions that you missed out on during that time.

For one thing, when you’re pregnant, they’re not going to put you in charge of a team that has a project that’s due right around the time you’re going to have the baby, right? They think, “Oh, she’s not going to be there” and even if you don’t get pregnant during those prime childbearing years, studies have shown that there is a cultural bias against promoting women in case they might get pregnant.

And Then The Gap Widens

So, anyways, the tendency for women to give up on their career aspirations for family growth instead of men, is something that has gone on ever since women entered the workforce. They have always been more likely to give up their career for having children than a man would.

We see now and then, more and more house husbands, especially if the wife is say, a doctor, a lawyer, a high-earning professional, a movie star, you know there are some times when the man will stay home with the children and the women will go back to work but it’s far from the norm right now.

The reason that it usually makes the most sense for the woman to stay home besides the physical birthing, nursing all of that, is that because men tend to have a higher salary than women so if one of them is going to take time off and stay home in terms of the family’s well-being, it makes sense for the highest earner to keep on earning.

If the family stays together, if there is no divorce, that makes the most sense, right? You want the highest earner to keep earning and you want the lowest earner to take the time off. However, with the number of marriages that end in divorce, this is a real problem for the wife because gone are the days of the endless alimony payments. Very few judges award alimony that goes out past a couple of years anymore even if you’ve been out of the workforce for a long time, they expect you to go get a job and support yourself.

The fact that you have given up so much of your earning potential by taking time out and not getting the ongoing promotions and salary raises and everything that you would have, had you stayed in the workforce, really isn’t accounted for in terms of maintaining your standard of living.

You may be at a certain standard of living while you’re married, you get a divorce, if you’ve been out of the workforce, I mean, some women stay out for eight or ten years while they have three or four children, that’s a significant loss of potential earnings.

As well as that you don’t re-enter the workforce at the same place you left it. Often, your industry will have kept going, kept advancing while you were out especially if you’re in some sort of Science / Technology industry. If you take five or eight years out of the Technology industry, do you think you can just jump back into a job at the same level you were at? Absolutely not.

You’re going to have to go back to entry-level positions and that’s hard for a lot of women especially if they have supported their husband through all of his career changes and aspirations and reaching big goals and getting promoted. Part of the reason he was able to do that and have children and have a family is that someone was at home taking care of them.

When women do go through divorce and now have to start supporting themselves again, often what they do, if they have some retirement savings, they may hit that up for awhile while they get themselves back on their feet. If they don’t have retirement savings, they certainly aren’t contributing to it in this period of time when they’re trying to re-establish themselves as a new single mother, in her own household.

Running two households is definitely more expensive than running one, the alimony is not going to cover it all by any means anymore. So there’s a new situation. Studies have shown that in the case of divorce here in the United States, at least, men’s standard of living goes up slightly after a divorce and women’s standard of living goes down.

I think a big part of the reason is that men have been earning more and they keep on earning more even if they pay some alimony, they still have more money to themselves afterwards especially depending on if they move into a new apartment where they used to have a big house with the family. There are all kinds of changes that can be made but overall, but the end result is that divorce puts men in a better financial position and women in a worse financial position.

Less Confidence Around Investing

I’m sure there are some more contributing factors throughout careers and lives of women as to why women ended up saving less than men.

Another one to throw out there is that women tend to be less confident about investments, about putting money into the stock market, something that they see as volatile and not that safe. After the crash of 2008, many feel that they have a lot of reason to fear. A lot of women who did have their retirement savings invested in stocks, bonds and index funds saw their savings cut in half.

If they did sell up and run then they may have carried that loss into the future. If they left it there and managed to get the benefit of the recovery, it will have recovered a good deal but it still…that was a huge hiccup in the overall growth of anybody’s retirement funds.

They say over time the stock market averages out somewhere between 6 and 12%, I think they usually put it around 8% including inflation that you should be making on your money over time but a lot of that really depends on when you pull the money out, when you retire, when you stop putting money in. So anyone who had just retired right before the crash of 2008 and no longer had earnings to continue to put in there but had to take money out in those years when the stock market was down, that was a really scary thing.

I don’t know that if they went back to work and kept working after the recovery if they would have continued putting money in. So not feeling comfortable with investing, a lot of women keep more in cash and keep more in very safe, low risk but low return types of investments; savings accounts, bonds, CDs, money market accounts.

Women who are afraid of losing money more than they want to make it, they tend to take these very safe investments that often don’t quite even return as much as inflation which means over time, they’re losing money.

The Main Culprits

We have the wage gap that starts out with your first job, usually, that widens as you have children, if you do have children and will also widen as you get promotions based on that lower starting salary than men had.

And Divorce. Women are worse off, not all women get divorced, but for those who do, that makes a significant impact on their ability to save for retirement.

I’d also like to throw special needs caregiving in there just because I have special needs children and a lot of the women I know, our parents are in their 70s and 80s now. A lot of people I know have young children at home, their children haven’t quite gone to college yet and they are starting to have to think more and more about caring for their parents as well.

And that’s another place where, although some men do care for their ageing parents, it tends more often than not to be daughters, wives and sisters who care for the ageing parent or the disabled loved ones. Again, it makes the most sense for them to leave the workforce or cut down to part-time work or take flex hours or change to a more family-friendly type of business that may be lower paying to care for the loved ones, because the fathers, sons and brothers are able to earn more in their careers. Then we also have the fear of investing.

All of this can contribute to women falling far behind men in retirement savings.

Now, What Can We do About it?


For one thing, on a micro level, we can hire women. We can hire women and we can pay them fairly. We can hire female freelancers. We can hire companies that are started by women. We can hire companies that have female CEOs. We can put our retirement investments into companies that have female CEOs and who practise gender parity in their hiring and paying practices.

There are few ways you can find out more about that. I’ll put some links in the show notes. One is Motif Investing No Glass Ceiling motif which I love. There are a number of companies now that are focusing on women.


When we think about women being afraid of investing, a lot of that is down to the financial services industry. I think for ages, women have felt not heard, not seen, not listened to by the financial services industry. A lot of the financial industry’s advertising and the way they position and present themselves is mostly appealing to men because in the past, men have had the most control of the money that goes towards retirement.

Women often have control of the household budget but because men are the earners and they would have pensions and they would have retirement plans or IRAs or whatever it is, the financial services industry overall is very skewed towards men. However, there are some great platforms and companies right now that are focusing completely on women.

A few of my favourites are DailyWorth. DailyWorth is a financial media platform but it’s so great for educating women about all kinds of things in terms of their money. I love DailyWorth and just to be totally transparent, I am part of their Connect platform and I do write for them monthly.

The founder of DailyWorth, Amanda Steinberg, is also starting a new company with a partner called WorthFM and this is going to be a low barrier to entry savings and investments platform, similar to Betterment which I’ve promoted before on this show because I love Betterment.

It’s a great way for people who have not invested before to get started. There’s also Acorns, which I’ve mentioned before and that really is the lowest barrier to entry, the way Acorns runs it but they don’t have tax advantage retirement accounts so I’m not going to lump them in here with the others because WorthFM and Betterment do have retirement account options. Another platform is Ellevest. They focus very much on women.

Raising Prices

And if you are self-employed, if you are a self-employed woman, a freelancer, a small business owner, an entrepreneur, raise your prices. Go ahead, raise your prices. See how it feels, see what it’s like, go look at your competitors. Are men doing the same jobs for more money than you are? Are you doing work that’s just as good or maybe better? If you’re not, take some time to think about the level of work that you’re doing and let’s make sure it’s better than your competitors and you can charge more, you can confidently charge more.


Another thing that we can do is that if you are working for a company, find out what your male co-workers are making. Find out and talk to people at your company, talk to other women, find out what they’re being paid, find out what some of the men are being paid and talk to the company.

If it’s hard to approach on your own saying, “I believe that I am being paid less than my male co-workers”, you can get a group of women together, talk about it, figure it out. There are a lot of companies out there who aren’t strategically and consciously paying women less, it’s just each individual hiring decision, if the negotiation doesn’t go as high, I mean, they want to save money, they cut wherever they can. If they can bully you down to a lower price, they probably will but if it gets exposed that this is a company wide problem, that the company overall is paying women less than men, that is a PR nightmare that no company wants to have.

I think a lot of companies, if it’s brought up and if it’s shown that, whether they meant to or not, they really are paying women less, a lot of them will fix it. So, I think you should tackle it, go ahead and try.

I think we also need to start publicly discussing issues like family leave, not just for women but for men as well. The more men take paternity leave, the less of a women’s issue children will be. Right now, children are a women’s issue but if men take time off too, if men bond with the children, if they trade off with the woman going back to work, if they have some sort of interesting flex schedule, women won’t be financially punished for having children anymore because it will be a family issue and not just a women’s issue.

So, that’s my episode for today. Thank you so much for joining me. I hope it was interesting to you. I hope it was helpful. If you liked it, please subscribe and join me every week.


If you enjoyed this episode you can subscribe to Financial Fluency here on iTunes and listen every week. If you like what you hear, please also leave an awesome iTunes review

I do two episodes every week, one solo and one interview.

I also have the fantastic Mastering Money Matters group, a monthly membership group where you can join and we talk about all the different pieces week by week of getting our money systems set up and how we look at, think about and value money and all areas of our lives.

It’s a very supportive and private group just for women and it’s a safe place to hang out and talk. It’s kind of the extension of the interviews I’ve been doing with mainly entrepreneurs on this show, and it’s where we can talk about the things we may not want to broadcast out to a broader audience.

Let’s Keep the Conversation Going

If you’re enjoying the podcasts and something has lit a fire for you, carry on the conversation over on the Financial Fluency Facebook Group.

See you there!

Jen x

Episode #40: Inspiring Entrepreneurship in our Kids

Inspiring Entrepreneurship in our Kids

Hello, and welcome to today’s episode of Financial Fluency. Today I want to talk about inspiring entrepreneurship in our kids, it’s something I’ve written a couple of articles about before. (Here’s one over at Daily Worth).

You can listen in or read below and Tweet it out hereTweet: Are your kids budding entrepreneurs? Here's how to inspire them via @jturrell

This is something I think is important because of the way that the landscape of the workforce has been changing drastically in recent decades. Whether or not you work for a company, nowadays everyone needs to be a self-starter and everyone needs to look out for their own career.

Long gone are the days of careers of working at the same company for 50 years and retiring with a pension plan. We all know that and yet I think what our kids are learning in school is not necessarily pushing them towards this idea of being self-starters and entrepreneurs. I’m not going to speak for all schools, of course, there are different programs in different areas.

Overall what kids learn in school is to sit quietly, keep their heads down, do their work and not to make any trouble

So what is it that we can do in own our lives to help our kids learn some of these principles of entrepreneurship?

I made up a quick list here that I’d like to share with you and then I’m going to tell you about what I started doing with my own kids to inspire entrepreneurship in them.

1. Goal Setting

The first one I think that is really important is to practice goal setting with your kids and not just setting goals but writing them down.

I’ve seen studies that show that you’re 80% more likely to reach your goals if you actually write them down on a piece of paper. So, work with your kids making some goals, write them down and put them where your kids can see them daily. That way you can talk about them, you can mark progress towards them, you can talk about, “What can we do this week that can help us move further towards our goal?”

2. Opportunity Recognition

The next tip that I wanted to give is encouraging opportunity recognition.

There are a lot of problems in the world. There are a lot of things that come up every day that we can bemoan and feel bad about but a problem is often an opportunity for somebody to find a solution. So, if there’s something that’s come up in your kids’ life that’s difficult.

Maybe there’s a derelict playground near your house or something and it would be a really cool place for the kids to play if only it weren’t so overgrown and messy and had trash all over it. That’s a problem. That’s something that is an unfortunate thing for your kids but what could they do about it?

They could do some fund-raising and have a clean up day. Make it a social good program to involve the whole neighborhood in cleaning up the derelict playground so that all the kids could play again

That’s just one example but pretty much anything that’s going on. Something that’s happening at school, something that’s happening in your local community. You could talk to your kids about what the problem is and brainstorm about what types of solutions could possibly help. Even if it’s not within the scope of your children to fix it, just the idea of, “Oh, okay, so there’s a problem, there’s something that can be done about it. What can we do to make it better?”

3. Money Matters

The third tip I want to give is teaching money matters. A lot of kids don’t get the real experience of controlling money themselves until they maybe hit college and get their first credit card which is a really tough time for a lot of kids.

A lot of kids who are away from home for the first time finally feel some independence and they want to go do fun and exciting things and I experienced this myself when I went to college and got my first credit card. I was going to school with a lot of kids who are in a much higher socio-economic sphere than I was. I’d see them do things like go to Martha’s Vineyard for Spring break and go to the shore and do all these exciting things. Go shopping at very expensive stores.

Because I was at this school with them, I wanted to go along with them and do these different things and I didn’t really understand the difference in my ability to pay back my credit card from theirs ’cause we’re all at the same school together, we’re all doing these things, I wanted to part of the group, a lot of kids do.

I think a way to buffer your children from that experience at college is to start much earlier. Let them earn some money and save money, budget money and spend money much earlier on so that they don’t have to go hog-wild when they hit college and finally get a credit card.

Let them kind of experience what it’s like to really save up for something and pay for it in full rather than always seeing things go on credit cards.

The way that kids see us use money nowadays is a bit problematic too. I’m dealing with this with my own kids because half the time we go to the grocery store, I take out my phone and pay with Apple Pay at the cash register so my kids don’t even see money being exchanged.

They just see that we go to the store, fill up our cart, the shopping gets run through this thing, mom waves her phone and then we go.

So the idea of what things cost, what things are worth, how long we have to work or what kind of work we have to do to get the money in the first place, it can be totally invisible to kids unless we show them what’s going on. We have to peel back that curtain and explain to them how it works.

So I’ve been really making an effort with my kids to do that. We went on vacation recently and as we were coming back my six year old said that she wanted to go on vacation for a hundred days so I was trying to explain to her that mommy and daddy have to work and that we have to work so much so that we can save enough money up to go on vacation ’cause every day that we’re on vacation we’re paying for things, we’re paying for our rental car or our hotel room or the places that we go.

So when we got back, Myffy made up this little calendar. She put a bunch of squares on a piece of paper and wanted to start marking off how long until we could go back on vacation again. Then there were times where she even said, “Mommy, do you need to work on your computer so you can make money to go on vacation?” I was like, “Okay, yeah, we’re starting to make the associations that there are some exchanges going on here.” So I was very proud of her for that. Obviously, we don’t want to overburden or overstress our kids with our financial situations but at least, letting them see some of how it works, I think is really important for them.

4. Failure is a Teacher

Another tip that I wanted to bring up is to show them that failure is a teacher and that it’s not an end. It’s not a destination and this is something that I do see as problematic with schools is, when you have a test, you either pass it or you fail it.

If you fail it, what happens? It seems like an end a lot of times for kids. It seems like, “Oh, okay, you fail. If you fail completely, you get held back and you have to do that whole year again.” Failure is just a really bad thing rather than something that you learn from. So showing kids that when something doesn’t work out, how to go back and analyze the results. “Okay, so this didn’t work the way we wanted it to work, what could we have done different, what could we do different next time that could influence the outcome?”

I feel like good schools and good teachers do do that with kids, they do go back and work through the problems that were missed and figure out what was wrong and allow them to retake the test and allow them to then succeed based on what they learned from that failure but I don’t know that overall the school system is really great at that.

5. Communication is Key

Practice communication skills with your kids and by this, I mean talking about a wide variety of subjects. Talking about things that are going on around them in your community, online, on TV, the things that they see. Don’t shut them down, don’t shut down questions because you don’t think they’re old enough to discuss it.

If they aren’t old enough to discuss it, discuss why that is, why this is something that maybe they don’t need to learn about right now but engage in the conversation with them. Really help them see the back and forth of conversation.

With technology intervening in so much of the communication that we do today, I think it’s really easy to not get into those deep conversations with people on a daily basis and I think it’s important for our kids to learn how to do that.

It’s important for them to talk to people in a way that allows them to see what’s important to the other person and allows them to communicate what’s important to them to that other person as well. So really taking the time to have these conversations with your kids, not just about the big, important things but about the little trivial things too. Just, “So why do you think that is? Why do you think that is? Well, what do you think about that?” Just really digging in and finding out what’s going on in their minds.

I am often fascinated especially my six-year-old Myffy, the way her brain makes connections between things is often really surprising to me. I feel like she thinks about things in a very different way than I do. So we both learn a lot when we take the time to have these conversations.

6. Instill Independence

Now this can be hard for the parents of small children. The toddler years are where they start finding independence and it can often bring us to loggerheads with our kids.

A thing needs to happen. The child absolutely does not want to do this thing. What do we do? I think that as much as possible, whenever we’re able to, allow your child to go ahead and try something even if you can see that it’s not going to quite work out the way that they wanted to.

Allow them to have that experience. Be there to help them, to pick them up if they fall down and all of that but really giving them the chance to try out their own ideas and then if they need some help making a pivot or making an adjustment figuring out what’s wrong, help them but let them have the experience, not always jump in and stop it just because you can see what’s going to come next because having that experience will help them be able to see in the future what you can see now for them.

7. Introducing sales situations

This tip is a little bit of an odd one because we don’t think of introducing sales situations to little children very often. If anything, we probably avoid introducing our children to sales situations but it’s a huge part of life.

Bringing into the conversation during buying things like, “So, what is it that made you want to buy that toy? Why do you think that appealed to you so much? If you were going to sell that toy to another kid, what would you say about it?” When they do want to sell things, if your child does want to make pocket money other than doing chores at home and things like that, really talk to them about how they’re going to present their sales.

If they’re going to do a lemonade stand, “How do you want to describe it? Do you want to have something else too? Do you want it to be ice cold? Do you want to put an umbrella in it? How can we make it more appealing to people? What would people really want with this lemonade? Should we have cookies as well? What kind of cookies? Do people really like Girl Scout cookies? Do we have Girl Scout cookies right now?” Just kind of discussing options, looking at how this exchange happens.

If your child wants to be able to have some money for certain things, what do they need to do in order to get it in an authentic and legal and positive way, like making sales situations a positive experience for your child, rather than something that can be mortifying?

8. & 9. Start Early and Have FUN!

The last two things I want to say are just to start as early as possible. Start implementing these different tips as you can and have fun with it.

Figure out ways to make looking at solving problems, coming up with solutions, selling things to the people who want them as something fun that you can do with your kid. Also, the money side of it too. It’s really exciting for kids to realize that there are ways that they can earn money and speaking of which, this brings me into my new project with my kids which I wanted to tell you about.

So, my youngest, Myffy, who’s six years old, for a while she’s been telling us that she is an artist and an illustrator like a friend of ours and I’ve been saying, “Yes, of course, you can be an artist and an illustrator, you can be anything that you want to be.” But obviously, in my mind, I’m thinking, “You can be an artist and an illustrator in 10 or 15 or 20 years after going to Art School.” What she means is she’s an artist and an illustrator right now and I finally thought,

Why should she have to wait 10 or 15 years to feel like she’s an artist? She does Art every single day

So does Tallulah, my oldest. So, I decided to go and set up a Redbubble site for them.

Now, Redbubble is a low barrier to entry kind of website, where artists upload their Art and it’s totally free for the artists and then what they do is they take those designs and they do print on demand on a variety of different products so you can get t-shirts or mugs, pillows, notebooks, all kinds of things. Greeting cards, stickers.

So I uploaded a few designs for each kid and I put them on there and we set it up and I announced it to my friends and family and they immediately had six or seven sales and it was super exciting for them and I can’t wait for Myffy in particular, to see two of our friends who recently got married. They each ordered a t-shirt with the design called, “Let’s get married” that she drew of a bride and groom on the t-shirt.

So, what that did for them was they now, really can see themselves as artists. They have artwork out there in the world that someone has paid to own, in some way. The profit margin for the artist is relatively small because Redbubble takes care of all the ordering, payment, printing, manufacturing, shipping fulfillment and Customer Service.

So at most, the kids are going to get about 20%, so those t-shirts were roughly $20 each. Myffy gets roughly $4 so that’s about $8 for those t-shirts our friends bought. I think the total we’re up to is about $18 or something in profit. But still, that’s exciting for a six and an eight-year-old, that’s a start and we can go in there anytime they want, we can upload some new designs, we can send it out to our mailing list of family and friends and it’s really exciting for them.

So if your kids are artists, want to be artists, want to be artists now, not just when they grow up, this might be a good option for you too. Check out my kids’ website. You can see what they’re doing and if you want to support some burgeoning artists/entrepreneurs, you can buy some stuff from them if you want.

So thank you so much for joining me for this episode today. I was really excited to talk about this. It’s something very close to my heart.

If you enjoyed this episode you can subscribe to Financial Fluency here on iTunes and listen every week. If you like what you hear, please also leave an awesome iTunes review

I do two episodes every week, one solo and one interview.

I also have the fantastic Mastering Money Matters group, a monthly membership group where you can join and we talk about all the different pieces week by week of getting our money systems set up and how we look at, think about and value money and all areas of our lives.

It’s a very supportive and private group just for women and it’s a safe place to hang out and talk. It’s kind of the extension of the interviews I’ve been doing with mainly entrepreneurs on this show, and it’s where we can talk about the things we may not want to broadcast out to a broader audience.

Let’s Keep the Conversation Going

If you’re enjoying the podcasts and something has lit a fire for you, carry on the conversation over on the Financial Fluency Facebook Group.

See you there!

Jen x

Financial Fluency Episode #35: The Language of Money with Hilary Hendershott

My guest on this week’s Financial Fluency is also someone who’s passionate about women talking about their money stories.

We talked about real vs online money, how women seem to have a hard time talking about money and why we believe it’s important to change that.

Hilary is a financial powerhouse for women – get stuck in to the episode. You’ll love it.

Listen in below and Tweet it out hereTweet: Listen in to @jturrell and @HilarytheCFP talk about the language of money and how you can change yours here:

Favorite Quotes

The truth is all of these beliefs [about money] are superstitions – Hilary

We completely made up money. Anything you think about money is made up – Hilary

My kids barely ever see money – they see me wave my phone in the grocery store – Jen

You’ve got to pay yourself a base salary – Hilary

I could not find a single place where women were having an online conversation about money – Hilary on starting her podcast

The best way to get the results that someone else had is to do what they did! – Hilary

We feel bad if we have more, we feel bad if we have less! – Jen

A lot of us aren’t raised thinking we can negotiate things – Jen

Hilary HendershottThough geneticists have yet to isolate the money gene, Hilary knows that our minds control all things financial. They determine the way money goes for you—and no matter how much you make, how much you have, or how much you want, your mind controls the flow, the habits and behavior patterns that keep recurring in your life around money.

Hilary became a neuroscience geek and read everything she could find on money psychology. She was determined to rewire her money mind and to be financially free. She made discoveries, adopted new beliefs, and developed systems that she tweaked again and again until they were working perfectly to transform her own financial life.

Slowly, slowly, and then all of a sudden, she began to notice that her account balances had grown in ways that allowed me to make new, empowered decisions about her financial life.


Find out more at

If you enjoyed this episode you can subscribe to Financial Fluency here on iTunes and listen every week. If you like what you hear, please also leave an awesome iTunes review

I do two episodes every week, one solo and one interview.

I also have the fantastic Mastering Money Matters group, a monthly membership group where you can join and we talk about all the different pieces week by week of getting our money systems set up and how we look at, think about and value money and all areas of our lives.

It’s a very supportive and private group just for women and it’s a safe place to hang out and talk. It’s kind of the extension of the interviews I’ve been doing with mainly entrepreneurs on this show, and it’s where we can talk about the things we may not want to broadcast out to a broader audience.

Let’s Keep the Conversation Going

If you’re enjoying the podcasts and something has lit a fire for you, carry on the conversation over on the Financial Fluency Facebook Group.

See you there!

Jen x